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Offline Floozy

Posts: 226
Gender: Female
« on: August 24, 2010, 04:05:07 pm »

Hi again all :)

I hope you don't think that this is a Floozy "rant"! Its just an observation.

The content of most books detail groups of mobs (the bestiaries) and groups of items.

At least some of those books have presumably been computer-generated (sorry Cleo if you did all that - but I don't think it was you!), there is probably a program which parsed the arch, and if the object was a mob with the "see invisible" ability the program would add <see invisible> to the book text.

Well, in the bestiaries the vast majority of mobs are booked as <very slow movement> including quite fast-moving creatures!. Also there are lots of duplications in the groups of items.

There are almost certainly other areas which could be improved.

As I know a bit of programming, if you tell me where the program is which has generated the book text I will have a look and try to improve it.

Kind regards
Floozy

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Offline Cleo
Developer
Alex Tokar

Posts: 580
Gender: Male
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 04:36:28 pm »

Books about monsters show the same information as first part of probe does ("(air breathing)(friendly)(slow movement)" for example). I agree that is kind of useless, partly because monsters on maps can have modified attributes (and often do, especially for boss-like monsters), but there really isn't much else to say in the books.

I have noticed myself books generating information about the same monster/artifact twice or more, which is, no doubt, a bug. If you download the server daily package, you can find the book generation in src/server/readable.c and the probe/monster/item description generation in src/server/item.c::describe_item().
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Offline Floozy

Posts: 226
Gender: Female
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 05:53:58 pm »

Okay here is a Floozy try!

Code snippet from item.c::describe_item which describes the speed of the mob:

if (FABS(op->speed) > MIN_ACTIVE_SPEED)
   {
      switch ((int) ((FABS(op->speed)) * 15))

      {

         case 0:
            very slow
...
         case 1:
...

define.h sets #define MIN_ACTIVE_SPEED 0.00001f
So if absolute(speed) is between .00001 and .06666666666 the creature is very slow

Looking at random creatures in the arch:

\arch\mobs\human\guards\guard\
Object guard
...
speed -0.048

\arch\mobs\animals\deer\
Object deer
...
speed -0.06

In fact I went through quite a few mobs looking for FABS(speed)>(1/15) - very few

If you like the way I have analysed this please give me ancouragement and I might do more :):)

Kind regards
Floozy
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 06:00:25 pm by Floozy »  Logged
Offline Cleo
Developer
Alex Tokar

Posts: 580
Gender: Male
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 06:22:16 pm »

Nice job so far.
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Offline Floozy

Posts: 226
Gender: Female
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 07:12:48 pm »

Heehee - well I s'pose that's a tiny bit of encouragement!

What would you like me to try to do then?

<edit> As Slugs appear to have the same "speed" attribute as fast animals (or even more), the books cannot sensibly report - it would tak a lot of programming to sort this out, so I suggest simply "drop" the speed description.
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 07:46:32 pm by Floozy »  Logged
Offline Cleo
Developer
Alex Tokar

Posts: 580
Gender: Male
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 07:48:20 pm »

The speed also seems to change depending on whether the monster is aggroed (in which case it's faster) or not, so the books are not entirely accurate anyway...
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Offline Floozy

Posts: 226
Gender: Female
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 09:41:47 pm »

So does the Atrinik community agree that the "speed" of mobs should not be described in books (because it is wrong)?
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Offline Cleo
Developer
Alex Tokar

Posts: 580
Gender: Male
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 09:48:40 pm »

The problem is that it's not easy to change it for books while leaving it like it is for probe/examine -- it's either keep or remove for all...
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Offline Floozy

Posts: 226
Gender: Female
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 10:26:46 pm »

I see what you mean! (I was just about to go to bed! - moan!!!!)

So if there is no guaranteed way of finding out whether an object pointer is simply the arch "base" definition, or a "live" game object there is always a potential problem with dynamic handling.

As a guess (or maybe a hunch), perhaps a negative speed would *normally* indicate an object which hasn't been "put into play" yet - could that please be tested - it would make it very easy to change the code if that were the case (even if only "most" and not "all" of the time).

<edit> In any case - if my investigations are correct perhaps the "probe" information can also be wrong - I haven't checked that!</edit>

Thank you for your patience
Kind regards
Floozy
« Last Edit: August 24, 2010, 10:32:03 pm by Floozy »  Logged
Offline Cleo
Developer
Alex Tokar

Posts: 580
Gender: Male
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 11:07:11 pm »

There are several ways to do it, one (among many others, I'm sure) is only printing the information if the object in question is on map, but that's a rather hacky way to do it.

I think books about monsters are pretty much useless either way -- maybe a good idea would be to have a text file containing known monsters and some information about them (that is randomly chosen when a monster book drops). This would also solve the issue where books contain information about monsters that are not even in game (like santa, for example), and would make many monster books actually worth reading -- hints such as "snowmen are slow but dangerous", "snowmen can throw snowballs", "wyverns are afraid of the cold, but immune against warmth", "green trolls are vicious, but they hate fire"; things like that.
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Offline idicus
Developer

Posts: 136
Gender: Male
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2010, 02:44:33 am »

i perfer the basic, untill ya fight the mob why should you know much about it?
higher level books should give you better details about low level mobs you have fought,......unless while fighting them ya figure it out.
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I am not retreating! i am simply attacking in a different Direction!
Offline Gramlath
Developer

Laser is not difficult...
Posts: 31
Gender: Male
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2010, 08:17:33 pm »

My suggestion would be to take a hybrid approach.  Have a monster desc file that is used for basic (low level) books and then add in random bits of probe info at higher levels to supplement.
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